Advaita or Nondualism

I have had a lot of ESP experiences, even though I don't pursue ESP. This blog was a good way for me to write of these experiences. Recently, however, I have become fascinated by Advaita or Nondualism and have been writing about this subject.

Sunday, May 28, 2006

Advaita or Nondualism, Wayne Liquorman, Am I a Balloon?

I have not added to this blog since December 2005, since frankly I have had very few comments on it. I figured that it was of little interest to people, and I became discouraged. I have been busy reading about Advaita or Nondualism, which has been to put it honestly has been a struggle. Recently, however, a couple of people have found this blog and left their comments. They have encouraged me to continue with this blog.

I have been spending my time in discussion groups, where I have posted a few items. I have found discussion groups somewhat troubling because although I received a lot of feedback, I think some people like to promote their own agendas and really do not want to discuss things. I have pulled away from discussion groups for now.

Of all my posts, this has been the most difficult for me. Part of the reason I think is that most of my other posts, especially the very first ones, have been about my personal experiences. This post is mostly embarrassing to me because I do not have any conclusions about Advaita or Nondualism. I am still in turmoil about this approach.

I had to laugh when in Wayne Liquorman’s book, “Never Mind,” Wayne quoted one of the people in a discussion group referencing the Advaita or Nondualism approach as making the person feel like he was an empty shell of a balloon.

As I have mentioned before, I struggle with the concepts. First of all, it is difficult understanding them, especially when I attempted to read the writings of Ramana Maharshi or of Ramesh Balsekar. I find myself gravitating to people like Tony Parsons, Gangaji, and Wayne, since they write simply and mostly keep away from confusing Hindu concepts. It was with Wayne’s book, “Never Mind,” that I got the clearest explanations of the concepts.

Now, I need to make a separation between understanding the concepts and buying into them. That is my current dilemma. I think I understand the concepts better, but the concepts are unsettling. Now, it may be rightfully be argued that this is the ego holding on or if can be argued rightfully that the concepts are not right.

It may come down to the concept of free will. Wayne would say there is no such thing —that we were born with a disposition leaning one way or another. You add in genetics and conditioning, and as Wayne puts it “the mind/body organism” has no choice but to choose one response.

I know this is putting it all very simply. Wayne would say that you are not the Doer or Author of your thoughts — that there is no such thing as free will or choice.

This is why the balloon analogy hit home for me and made me laugh. I feel the same way. I sometimes feel that the Advaita or Nondualism approach can appear to be very negative. If God is All and Everything is part of this All, why this game playing? Why must we discover the Truth by ourselves?

These are the questions I have been struggling with lately. I will be interested in your comments, and I will let you know if anything that happens to me tips the scales either in favor of Advaita or Nondualism or away from it.

9 Comments:

  • At May 30, 2006 at 8:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Namaskaram...... Brother Bob..... Thank you for sharing your thoughts and your struggles.

    You said:

    "As I have mentioned before, I struggle with the concepts. First of all, it is difficult understanding them,.........Now, I need to make a separation between understanding the concepts and buying into them. That is my current dilemma. I think I understand the concepts better, but the concepts are unsettling."

    I would like to share with you; that as far as the concepts of Advaita are concerned.... You could struggle with these concepts until the Holy Cows come home. :-) It might be useful to remember that Advaita is not about "understanding concepts." And it is definitely not about "making a separation between understanding the concepts and buying into them". There is NoThing to buy into. There is no concept that will make you to 'understand'. The concepts are NOT IT. Rather than a separation of any kind, there is to be A Realization of THE UNITY--The Oneness--The One without a seoncd=Advaita. It is a matter of DIRECT EXPERIENCE not a matter of understanding or figuring it out in your mind. So, lets hope you NEVER buy into it. I know you have read..... The concepts are NOT the Truth.... They only point the seeker to a DIRECT EXPERIENCE of THE TRUTH, for himself, which is ineffable. It simply can't be known by the mind. The Knowing transcends the mind, the thoughts, the concepts.. The mind is used, to transcend itself.

    "The stick that stirs the funeral pyre, in the end is burnt up in it".

    Om Tat Sat...... Kama Devi

     
  • At May 31, 2006 at 11:01 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Kama Devi,

    Thank you for your beautiful words and thoughts. I cannot disagree with anything you say. I know that teachers point the way and that students become confused that the pointing is the same as the Way, which it is not. I do think it is helpful that there be some connection between the teacher and the student for the student to experience the Way directly by himself/herself. With the connection, I believe the pointers (concepts) do lead to a direct experience.

    Having said all this maybe the problem for me is the lack of connection between Wayne and myself. His pointers may not work for me or become obstacles. In his books, Wayne talks about the connection he felt for Ramesh and how that eventually led to a direct experience. Gangaji also talks about how the connection between 'Poonjaji led to a direct experience.

    Just a thought or maybe just more rationalization.

     
  • At June 4, 2006 at 8:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Greetings Brother Bob....

    You will probably remember.....Traditionally there are 5 main paths to Direct Experience/Self Realization. They are: Bhakti Yoga or Devotion, Karma Yoga or Action/Selfless Service, Jnan Yoga or Knowledge, the Eight Limbs of Raja Yoga and Shaktipat or Transmission by a Guru/Teacher. Of course there are many many more, but these are the traditional 5 and only the last relates to resonance with or transmissin from the teacher. So, even "traditionally", resonance with a teacher is not necessarily necessary :-) There are also many like Eckhart Tolle who had no 'teacher' or 'spiritual practice' at all. If I remember his story correctly....Depression was his Guru.

    You said: "Having said all this maybe the problem for me is the lack of connection between Wayne and myself....... In his books, Wayne talks about the connection he felt for Ramesh and how that eventually led to a direct experience."

    I think Wayne would say that the resonance with Ramesh did NOT eventually "lead" to a Direct Experience. I think Wayne would say that nothing "leads" to direct exerience. I think he would say that a great resonance HAPPENS between he and Ramesh. There IS a resonance between them and there was the dawning of the Final Understanding. But, I don't think he would say that the resonance with Ramesh "lead to Dircect Experience" or that the resonance was "THE CAUSE".

    That's what I think..... But you could check it out with him :-)

    Om Tat Sat..... Kama Devi

     
  • At May 11, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Everything that arises in awareness is part and parcel with the beingness that rests there already. Mind attachments and associations can pull us into identifying with these thought pattern as "me". One of the hardest things for a seeker to do is to just relax! That is why a lot of non-duality speakers say 'just rest and know you are it already' or the ancient, 'be still and know that I am God'. Easier said than done, maybe, but it can at least produce a relaxation response to see all thoughts as just arising and leaving in the awareness that lies behind them-LOOK AT THAT!

     
  • At November 25, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

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  • At October 19, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Anonymous Aaron Wigg said…

    Hi Brother Bob!

    Thought I'd share too.

    It sounds like you're coming to the end of your journey, that you were never on (this'll become clear).

    As a couple of people have already written: non duality or the truth of your nature cannot be understood because it is formless.

    If something is comprehended or understood, then there is a supposed individual trying to comprehend and understand something which is separate from it.

    What can happen is that the individual just falls away. Dissolving back into from whence it came: Formlessness, the real you.

    The individual is seen through. It is seen that the individual was only a concept in itself believing it was having other concepts.

    Aaron Wigg

    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=aaronwigg1&aq=f

     
  • At March 24, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Blogger Consius said…

    HI

    Seeking here too. Concepts? THey can kill you! Who is the doer? what is god? What sees? There is seeing without a doer. YEAH! I got it. I now not got it. Seeing happens but who sees? Oh no!

     
  • At July 31, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Blogger Larry Coble said…

    Beautiful thread. Brother Bob, I too have some of the same thoughts as you. It would seem then that it is natural. That being said, perhaps all we need do is continue our daily readings and relax into things. It seems we are powerless to bring awakening to ourselves, yet if we earnestly desire, it will come into view if we gently allow ourselves to be.

     
  • At February 5, 2015 at 1:39 AM, Blogger Unknown said…

    Thank you this is a very handy article those who don't know where to start. I would also suggest a program called finders course where they claim "No guessing, no wasting time" find your method for meditation. here's the link https://finderscourse.iljmp.com/1/khbjy

     

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